Trave OK

This was no mistake.  And don't waste your time contacting
our ambassador.  We don't give a shit.
We, U.S. Soldiers, shoot and bomb our own journalists.  We have
have no qualms about killing your journalists as well.
So, listen Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, if you have a problem,
keep it to yourself, or we will shoot up and bomb your country.
You insignificant little piece of shit. Kiss our ass and shut up.

All real patriots will agree.

The story is pretty consistently reported as the wounding of the
journalist being the bigger story than the death of the Italian
Secret Service Agent.  

Imagine if an Italian MP shot and killed an American Secret Service
Agent.  

First, let me just say that I was greatly moved by Nicola Calipari's
action above all.  He put his assignment, which is to bring Giuliana
Sgrena home safely, before his own life; he threw himself over Sgrena
as soon as he became aware of the bullets coming at her.

Second, it is necessarily the case that the mission was about saving
Sgrena, even at the expense of one or more Italian government agents.
That was the nature of the mission.

So, not surprisingly, the greater tragedy got less recognition in the
news, even though it was the tragedy of a great hero, Nicola Calipari.

Third, some of us who read the story have immediately recognised that
Sgrena might have actually been targeted and would have been dead had
Calipari didn't throw himself over her to save her, as there has been
rampant rumors that some journalists in this war are targeted by the
US military.

     Eason Jordan resigned . . . as CNN's chief news executive in an
     effort to quell a burgeoning controversy over his remarks about
     U.S. soldiers killing journalists in Iraq.

Il Manifesto, for which Sgrena has worked, is news organizations with
a record opposing the Iraq war and Sgrena's pacifist stand has been
widely publicized since her ***ping.

So Pietro Carena is probably right in saying

   ``But I do not think it was a matter of speed limit....''

[The rest of Carena's message:

  You get the point.

  Something different has to be happened, in Baghdad, tonight.

  May be Italians didn't have the Americans' permission to perform their
  attempt.

  May something different, even worse.
]

In the early reports, several US military sources were asked to
comment and they were remarkably reticent.  The excuse given if it was
given at all was that the Italian car was speeding, ignoring
checkpoint soldiers' warnings.  So, at least officially, the US
military is blaming the car speed.

Some poster assumes that the Italians didn't notify the Americans.
Since there are other secret agents in the car who were only wounded,
maybe they can eventually tell the whole story.  For now, since we
know that Berlusconi, his foreign minister, Sregna's family in Italy,
and il Manifesto have all known of and celebrated the release before
the incident, and since Berlusconi is such a steadfast ally of Bush,
it is quite extraordinary if the US military at those checkpoint on
the road to the Baghdad International Airport didn't know of the
release well in advance.  The fact that good pal Berlusconi would call
in the US Ambassador for questioning suggests that things just didn't
add up to the Italians.

Finally, if Calipari threw himself over Sgrena to protect her and got
the killing bullet instead, it is highly probable that he saw where
the gun was aiming.  It wasn't just the car that was targeted; it was
a certain passenger which was aimed at.

I see this war as extremely dirty.  I can't see how Berlusconi could
support it unless Bush has some dirt on him to make him do his
bidding.

lo yeeOn
========

   Yahoo! News   Fri, Mar 04, 2005
   By PATRICK QUINN, Associated Press Writer

   BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S.-led coalition forces fired on a car carrying a
   freed Italian hostage as it approached a checkpoint in Baghdad Friday,
   wounding the former captive and killing another person in her car, a
   U.S. military spokesman said.

   Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, an ally of the United States
   who has kept troops in Iraq (news - web sites) despite public
   opposition at home, said an Italian intelligence officer was killed.
   He asked the U.S. ambassador for an explanation of the shooting.

   "Given that the fire came from an American source I called in the
   American ambassador," Berlusconi told reporters before the U.S.
   statement acknowledging that coalition forces shot at the vehicle. "I
   believe we must have an explanation for such a serious incident, for
   which someone must take the responsibility."

   The freed hostage, journalist Giuliana Sgrena, was being treated by
   "coalition force medical personnel," an U.S. announcement said. The
   shooting came shortly after her release was confirmed. She had been
   held hostage for about a month.

   "At approximately 8:55 p.m. tonight, coalition forces assigned to the
   multinational force Iraq fired on a vehicle that was approaching a
   coalition checkpoint in Baghdad at a high rate of speed," the U.S.
   announcement said. "The recently freed Italian journalist Giuliana
   Sgrena was an occupant in the vehicle and was apparently injured."

   The statement, given to The Associated Press in Baghdad by telephone,
   said that details of the incident were "unclear."

   "It appears a second person in the automobile was killed," and that
   "Sgrena is being treated by coalition force medical personnel."

   Sgrena was wounded by shrapnel, Berlusconi said.

   U.S. troops took her to an American military hospital, where she had a
   minor operation on her left shoulder to remove a piece of shrapnel,
   the Italian prime minister said.

   Sgrena, 56, who worked for the left-week Il Manifesto, was abducted
   Feb. 4 by gunmen who blocked her car outside Baghdad University. Last
   month, she was shown in a video pleading for her life and demanding
   that all foreign troops -- including Italian forces -- leave Iraq.

   Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman, said a shooting incident
   occurred as the Italian woman was being brought into U.S. military
   control at Camp Victory, the U.S. military base near Baghdad
   International Airport.

   He offered no other details, including whether anyone was killed or
   who did the shooting.

   The editor of Il Manifesto, Gabriele Polo, said the Italian agent was
   killed when he threw himself over the freed hostage to protect her
   from U.S. fire, according to Apcom.

   The press office of the U.S.-led coalition in Baghdad said they had no
   information about the incident.

   The Italian government earlier had announced that Sgrena had been
   freed, prompting expressions of joy and relief from officials and her
   family.

   Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini expressed "great joy and enormous
   satisfaction," the ANSA news agency said.

   The reporter's father was so overwhelmed by the news that he needed
   assistance from a doctor, ANSA said. "This is an exceptional day,"
   Franco Sgrena was quoted as saying.

   At Il Manifesto's offices, reporters toasted the release with
   champagne.

   Il Manifesto has fiercely criticized the war and Berlusconi's decision
   to deploy 3,000 troops after the ouster of Saddam Hussein.

   On Feb. 19, tens of thousands of demonstrators marched through Rome
   waving rainbow peace flags to press for Sgrena's release. Il Manifesto
   and Sgrena's companion, Pier Scolari, organized the march. Scolari
   actively has highlighted Sgrena's pacifist conviction in hopes of
   aiding her release.

   About 200 foreigners have been abducted in Iraq in the past year, and
   more than 30 of the hostages were killed.

   Another European reporter, Florence Aubenas, a veteran war
   correspondent for France's leftist daily Liberation, is still being
   held in Iraq. Aubenas and her interpreter, Hussein Hanoun al-Saadi,
   disappeared nearly two months ago.

2) U.S. forces shoot just-freed Italian hostage, kill guard

   Last Updated Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:47:42 EST
   CBC News

   ROME - Joy turned to horror in Italy on Friday when an Italian
   journalist who had been held hostage in Iraq was released, only to be
   shot by U.S. military forces at a checkpoint in Baghdad.

   Journalist Giuliana Sgrena underwent shoulder surgery in Baghdad
   Friday.

   Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena suffered a shrapnel wound to her
   shoulder when an American armoured car fired on her vehicle, while an
   Italian intelligence officer accompanying her was killed.

   Grena's editor said the dead officer, Nicola Calipari, had thrown his
   body over Sgrena's in order to protect her. He had been heavily
   involved in the negotiations to free her, the Italian government
   confirmed.

   Two other intelligence agents in the car were also injured.

   Berlusconi demands explanation

   Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, has asked the American
   ambassador to explain the incident.

   In Washington, the Pentagon confirmed that a shooting occurred as the
   Italian woman was being brought to an American base near Baghdad's
   airport.

   "At approximately 8:55 p.m. tonight, coalition forces assigned to the
   multinational force in Iraq fired on a vehicle that was approaching a
   coalition checkpoint in Baghdad at a high rate of speed," the military
   said in a statement.

   The Italians' car made no move to slow down, so the forces fired into
   its engine block, according to some reports.

   Sgrena, a 56-year-old reporter for the communist daily newspaper Il
   Manifesto, had been held captive in Iraq since Feb. 4.

   Thousands of demonstrators marched through downtown Rome last month
   demanding that Italy pull its troops out of Iraq, after a video was
   released of a tearful Sgrena warning that she would be killed if the
   country didn't withdraw.

   Shortly after the video was released, the Italian senate voted to
   extend the country's 3,000-troop mission in Iraq to June.

   The ANSA news agency said Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini expressed
   "great joy and enormous satisfaction" early Friday about the
   reporter's release.

   She was at least the eighth Italian citizen seized
...

read more »

Don "luscious" Berlusconi is Mafiosi.

Grantland

Were these dagos drunk or stupid? What the *** did they think was
going to happen if they didn't obey commands at a checkpoint? Did they
think the soldiers were waving at them to say "howdy"? You wops ARE
aware there's a military action going on in Iraq, yes? Oh wait, she was
a recently release *hostage*, so one would think they'd have a goddam
clue.

Idiots...

Quote:> Were these dagos drunk or stupid? What the *** did they think was
> going to happen if they didn't obey commands at a checkpoint? Did they
> think the soldiers were waving at them to say "howdy"? You wops ARE
> aware there's a military action going on in Iraq, yes? Oh wait, she was
> a recently release *hostage*, so one would think they'd have a goddam
> clue.

It is hard to admit that your army resemble more an highly armed circus of
lobotomized cretins than anything else, uh?

Quote:> Idiots...

Right. You are talking about the United Stoopids of America, aren't you?

Not in Italy. The death of the agent completely shut down all the
impromptu celebrations that erupted when the release of the journalist
was reported. Even the journalist's parents were shown weeping at the
news.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

It looks like this case is going to trigger a good (and probably
deserved) dose of antiamericanism in Italy, exactly like the Cermis
gondola case. This case is even more difficult to manage by the Italian
government, as the agent was a very respected policeman, and policemen
are usually an area where some parties in the governing coalition are
always looking for votes. I hope the US government moves quickly in a
very sensible manner, as there is a potential for very large political
damages to be done. Probably most US contributors will not realize that
Italy has the fourth largest military presence in Iraq, and if US hope
to ever get out of the difficult job of policing Iraq, they really
cannot afford to make this mishaps - and it doesn't matter whose fault
really is.

--

You bet.

Quote:> This case is even more difficult to manage by the Italian
> government, as the agent was a very respected policeman, and policemen
> are usually an area where some parties in the governing coalition are
> always looking for votes. I hope the US government moves quickly in a
> very sensible manner, as there is a potential for very large political
> damages to be done.

I am afraid the damage has been done already.

Quote:> Probably most US contributors will not realize that
> Italy has the fourth largest military presence in Iraq, and if US hope
> to ever get out of the difficult job of policing Iraq, they really
> cannot afford to make this mishaps - and it doesn't matter whose fault
> really is.

Ok, now. Anyone does it consider a job of policing Iraq what the Americans
are doing? I mean, those watch dogs have not been informed that a car with a
journalist freed from ***ping, a case that has been hitting the worldwide
news, was going to pass through the checkpoint. Since that car was
"speeding" (journalist Sgrena already claimed that is complitely false) they
shoot itkilling 2 people, as if it was a speed limit ticket. Is THAT the way
they are policing Iraq?? How many civilians have been killed by the
Americans in the same way, then? Are we kidding? I don't give a flying s...,
if that is the way they are doing things in Irak, we can all leave now and
for good. But first, who killed the Italian secret services agent, must go
to jail with all the people involved in such a mess. They *** with the
death penalty people for much less, in USA. Just wait and see, this mess is
just started. Ah, for your information I was against the invasion of Irak
(were are the WMD, guys??), but I was not against sending the Italian troops
there, when the damage was already done. But this is far too much. US
forces. What a bunch of incompetent twats.

Ciao,
Michele

What would make you think they "target" anyone?  As to journalist, they seem
to operate "in your face", but I do not believe they are targetted either.
Norma

Quote:

> --
> Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
> http://www.travelOK.net/

Michele, concordo, ma non aspettarti azioni disciplinari da parte delle
autorita' USA nei confronti dei militari.
Uno dei piloti del Cermis e' stato promosso .... capisc ... ?
Per loro, contano solo loro, gli altri contano zero.
Schifo ? Assolutamente, per me, ora piu' che mai : A CASA , TUTTI A CASA.
Se gli amercani vogliono restare, fatti loro, che stiano, ma da soli.

Me lo diceva sempre, la zia Bettina (che io ci volevo bene, alla zia
Bettina) .. "ognuno a casa propria.."

Sani.

Roberto.

It was the usual snafu that one runs into in war.  American soldiers are
getting killed daily,  all of them in the danger zones are edgy and
some will shoot at the first sign of trouble, better early that too late.

I suspect that the Italian agents thought they had clearance to go through
the checkpoints unstopped, getting Sgrena as quickly to the
airport and out of the country as possible.

The American story is patched up to read as if the blame was
on the other side--

"The U.S. military said the car she was riding in after her release was
speeding as it approached a coalition checkpoint in western Baghdad on its
way to the airport. Soldiers shot into the engine block only after trying to
warn the driver to stop by "hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and
firing warning shots," the military said."

But ----

Ms Sgrena looked weak as she got off the plane before heading by ambulance
to a military hospital in Rome.

She told Italian radio of the "rain of fire" on her car, which she said was
not going particularly fast.

****

If Sgrena's version is preferred by the Italians (probably) it will paint
the Americans as trigger happy.

I think it is probable that the American military will confirm their own
version! And the American people will back that version just as they
do when there is a police shooting incident in the US and somebody gets
killed.  It is the "we thought he was reaching for a gun" version of
police self-defense.  In Europe, something like the Diallo shooting a couple
of years ago in New York would not occur.  French police are charged,
prosecuted, and convicted of misusing their weapons. In the US, practically
any excuse will be accepted by a jury, if it gets that far.

Earl

Quote:"Michele Dall'Agata"  wrote...

> Ok, now. Anyone does it consider a job of policing Iraq what the Americans
> are doing? I mean, those watch dogs have not been informed that a car with
> a journalist freed from ***ping, a case that has been hitting the
> worldwide news, was going to pass through the checkpoint. Since that car
> was "speeding" (journalist Sgrena already claimed that is complitely
> false) they shoot itkilling 2 people, as if it was a speed limit ticket.
> Is THAT the way they are policing Iraq?? How many civilians have been
> killed by the Americans in the same way, then? Are we kidding? I don't
> give a flying s..., if that is the way they are doing things in Irak, we
> can all leave now and for good. But first, who killed the Italian secret
> services agent, must go to jail with all the people involved in such a
> mess. They *** with the death penalty people for much less, in USA.
> Just wait and see, this mess is just started. Ah, for your information I
> was against the invasion of Irak (were are the WMD, guys??), but I was not
> against sending the Italian troops there, when the damage was already
> done. But this is far too much. US forces. What a bunch of incompetent
> twats.

While I'll admit that the last miliutary checkpoint I was ever personally
involved in was out in the Atlantic 43 years ago, the rules then and the
rules now are pretty much the same....Heave to/Stop/Halt/Arrete/Alto and
Identify (especially in Iraq, where the casulaty count among those guarding
roads and check points has been all too high).  That back then we would have
used bombs and naval gunfire to stop a Soviet freighter crossing the
"Deadline" was not in question, and to keep driving while contemplating
whether troops at a checkpoint "may" fire is an exercise in gross stupidity
and culpable negligence.

I suspect that the Italian INTEL agennts may have surmised that the
checkpoint may have been manned by Sunni insurgents/jihadists, apparently
pretty common these days (and how the journalist was originally ***ped),
but the troops were operatiing under the "Rules of Engagement", "If it don't
stop, stop it!", common the military security posts all around the world and
under countless flags, including the guys in blue berets.

Fortunately, they only used light weapons, not the 25mm chain gun in a
Bradley, whicvh would have likely quickly killed all aboard (and which were
it I watching an unidentified vehicle bearing down on me in an area where
attacks on road guards are commonplace, I would have certainly triggered).

Why the F*ck didn't the blithering idiots stop?

TMO

The present case doesn't need to remain to be seen.  I, a U.S. citizen
can tell
you now, how it will be seen.   Bush will say this will be
investigated. (ha ha ha)
The "investigation" will rule the incedent an accident or place blame
on the driver.
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi will have to choice but to
accept the
results of the "investigation".
And Nicola Calipari will be just another victom of Bush's genocide.