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by **Thornton Shephe** » Wed, 31 May 1995 04:00:00

Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine swears
that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at fault.

Please let me know if you can back up either statement.

Thornton

by **Stuart Menge** » Thu, 01 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
> Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
> KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine swears
> that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at fault.

> Please let me know if you can back up either statement.

> Thornton

I remember the incident, it was a ***y mess to say the least. The details are lost
in time for me but I will try to dig out articles from that time. As I remember the
collision was in Fog.. one 747 was on takeoff and the other taxied onto the runway
facing the other, or such like.

In any case I can't answer right now but will try to find out.

Stu
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by **Bruce Mill** » Thu, 01 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:>Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
>KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine
swears
>that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at

fault.

My recollection is that the KLM 747 began his roll without take off clearance
and then had to leap frog over the Pan Am 747. The Pan Am plane was taxiing
on the active runway and due to fog couldn't be seen by the KLM pilot when he
started the take off run.

Bruce

by **Peter Harv** » Thu, 01 Jun 1995 04:00:00

>Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
>KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine swears
>that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at fault.

>Please let me know if you can back up either statement.

>Thornton

*** My memory says that ATC was at fault.

Pete

by **Howard H. Hamilt** » Thu, 01 Jun 1995 04:00:00

>Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
>KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine swears
>that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at fault.

>Please let me know if you can back up either statement.

I remember hearing that the ATC told the KLM pilot to 'hold for takeoff'
and the pilot misinterpreted it as 'clear for takeoff'.

Cheers, Howard

--
Howard H. Hamilton The North Avenue Trade School

Ajax, Real Madrid and Juventus: Together again!

by **Jishnu Muker** » Thu, 01 Jun 1995 04:00:00

|> >
|> >
|> > Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
|> > KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine swears
|> > that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at fault.
|> >
|> > Please let me know if you can back up either statement.
|> >
|> >
|> > Thornton
|> I remember the incident, it was a ***y mess to say the least. The details are lost
|> in time for me but I will try to dig out articles from that time. As I remember the
|> collision was in Fog.. one 747 was on takeoff and the other taxied onto the runway
|> facing the other, or such like.

If I recall correctly, the KLM pilot started the take-off roll without getting
propoer clearance. the Pan Am pilot missed a n exit from the runway and was thus
on the runway a little longer. he noticed what was happening and tried to get the
heck off the runway, but could not do so before the KLM plane hit the Pan Am
plane. There was considerable confusion due to the use of non-standard phrases by
the ATC, and there was considerable amount of fog.

--
Jishnu Mukerji

+1 908 522 5024

by **Peter Southwic** » Fri, 02 Jun 1995 04:00:00

A bomb exploding at Las Palmas caused diversions to the less well
equiped Los Rodeos field. Here follows the transcripts of both
aircraft, you can make your mind up on what happened, bear in mind
visibility was down to 900mtrs

27 March 1977 KLM mark PH-BUF Pan Am mark N736PA

1700:43.5 Ground control to PAA
Clipper 1 7 3 6 cleared taxi into the runway following the
747 from KLM
1700:51.1 PAA 1st officer
Clipper 1 7 3 6
1700:19.5 GRD
7 1 2 stand by. Break clipper 1 7 3 6 leave the runway
(dah) 3 1 (dah) on to ((y)our) left
1700:28.6 PAA 1st officer
I am sorry say again please
1701:31.6 GRD
Leave the runway the third one (your) left
1701:37.7 PAA 1st officer
Okay taxi down the runway and ah leave the runway the
first intersection on the left is that correct
1701:45.6 GRD
Negative the third one the third one and change 1 1 9 . 7
1701:51.1 PAA 1st officer
OK the first one and 1 19 7 changing
1701:54.2 PAA Captain (cockpit voice recorder)
We can hold here if he'd let us
1701:57.0 PAA 1st officer
Tenerife, the clipper 1 7 3 6
1702:01.8 Approach control
Clipper 1 7 3 6 , Tenerife
1702:03.6 PAA 1st officer
Ah we were instructed to contact you and also to taxi down
the runway is that correct
1702:08.4 Approach
Affirmative taxi into the runway and ah leave the runway
third third to your left third
1702:16.4 PAA 1st officer
Third to the left OK
(There is some confusion in the Pan Am***pit. The
Captain still thought the controller had said "first" The
1st officer says he'll ask him again. He doesn't get the
chance immediately, because approach control is seeing off
the sunjet flight 282)
1702:49.8 Approach
KLM 4 8 0 5 how many taxiway ah did you pass?
1702:55.6 KLM 1st officer
I think we just passed charlie four now
1702:59.9 Approach
OK ... at the end of the runway make 180 and report ah
ready ah for ATC clearance

(The PAA crew are discussing which taxiway he can mean,
and so not giving much attention to the traffic between
KLM and approach control at this point)
1703:14.2 KLM 1st officer
is ah centreline lighting available for 4 8 0 5
1703:19.8 Approach
Standby I don't think so sir I don't think so standby I
will check
1703:22.9 KLM 1st officer
OK
1703:25.0 Approach
They are working on them anyway we'll check it
1703:29.3 PAA 1st officer
Would you confirm you want the clipper 1 7 3 6 to turn
left at the third intersection ("third" drawn out and
emphasised)
1703:36.4 Approach
The third one sir 1 2 3 third third one
1703:39.2 PAA 1st officer
Very good thank you
1703:47.6 Approach
...er 7 1 3 6 report leaving runway
1703:55.0 PAA 1st officer
clipper 1 7 3 6 (the PAA crew finish taxiing checks)
1704:58.2 Approach
...M 8 7 0 5 and clipper 1 7 ..3 6 for your information
the centreline lighting is out of service
1705:05.8 KLM 1st officer
I copy that
1705:07.7 PAA 1st officer
Clipper 1 7 3 6
(Now the PAA crew start looking for the taxiway,The record
of their conversation has had no one counting them off as
they pass, and now they seem to be trying to identify
which is which by the angle from the runway)
1705:44.8 KLM 1st officer
Uh the KLM 4 8 0 5 is now ready for takeoff and...uh we're
waiting for our ATC clearance
1705:53.4 Approach
KLM 4 8 0 5 uh you are cleared to the papa beacon climb to
and maintain niner zero... right turn after takeoff
proceed with heading 0 4 0 until intercepting the 3 2 5
radial from Las Palmas VOR
1706:09.6 KLM 1st officer
Ah roger sir we are cleared to ah the papa beacon flight
level niner zero right turn out 0 4 0 until intercepting
the 3 2 5 and we're now (ah taking off) (at take off)
1706:18.5 Approach
...K
1706:19.3 PAA 1st officer
No uh...
1706:20.3 PAA 1st officer
And we're still taxiing down the runway the clipper 1 7 3
6
1706:25.6 Approach
Roger papa alpha 1 7 3 6 report the runway clear
1706:29.6 PAA 1st officer
OK we'll report when we're clear
1706:32.1 Approach
Thankyou

There now follows a transcript of the PAA***pit voice recorder for
the eigh*** seconds left before the two aircraft collide
C-1 is the Captain C-2 is the 1st officer C-3 is the Flight Engineer

1706:32.1 C-1
Let's get the **** right here...Get the **** out of here
1706:34.9 C-2
Yeah he's anxious isn't he
1706:36.2 C-3
Yeah after he held us up for an hour and a half that ****
1706:38.4 C-2
Yeah that ****
1706:39.8 C-3
Now he's in a rush
1706:40.6 C-1
There he is ... Look at him **** that...that ****,s coming
1706:45.9 C-2
Get off get off get off

1706:48.7 Sound of take off warning horn.Sound of approaching engines

1706:50.1 Sound of impact

There now follows the transcript of the KLM***pit voice recorder ,
from 1706:32.43 until the moment of impact. Abbreviations follow the
same pattern

1706:32.4 C-?
Is he not clear then?
1706:34.1 C-1
What did you say?
1706:34.7 C-?
Is he not clear that Pan American?
1706:35.7 C-1
Oh yes
1706:43.5 C-2
Vee one
1706:47.4 C-1
Oh ****

1706:49.3 Sound of impact

"Hope this answers some questions"

Regards

by **Mike Wagn** » Fri, 02 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Forgotten in the details is the fact that the only reason those planes, and
many others, were at Tenerife at all was due to a bomb scare at their original
destination, Las Palmas. All traffic was diverted to Tenerife, a much smaller
facility. The planes were stacked up on the ground. When they finally began
to depart for the short run over to Las Palmas, the Pan Am was stuck in
position waiting for the KLM to move first. The KLM pilot decided to take on
a full load of fuel first, and the Pan Am plane had to sit in position as they
were blocked by the KLM plane. The KLM was supposed to return to Copenhagen
from Las Palmas, and if they had waited to refuel at Las Palmas they would not
have enough time for the return flight, since the crew would have exceeded the
alloted number of hours worked while en route.

The KLM pilot was thus under a time constraint, and apparently upon reaching
the end of the runway and turning around, did not understand that another
plane was taxiing up the runway toward him. Since the normal taxiway was
blocked with other aircraft, the PanAm had to taxi up the main runway. Due to
heavy fog, the tower could not see the planes on the runway. The tower told
the PanAm to turn off the runway at the third exit, but the PanAm crew had not
reached that point yet. The KLM pilot thought the tower gave him clearance to
take off, and started to roll down the runway. The co-pilot wasn't sure they
had clearance.

Over 500 people died in the crash. There were about 60 survivors.
==========================================

by **Tcha** » Fri, 02 Jun 1995 04:00:00

>|> >
>|> >
>|> > Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
>|> > KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine swears
>|> > that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at fault.
>|> >
>|> > Please let me know if you can back up either statement.
>|> >
>|> >
>If I recall correctly, the KLM pilot started the take-off roll without getting
>propoer clearance. the Pan Am pilot missed a n exit from the runway and was thus
>on the runway a little longer. he noticed what was happening and tried to get the
>heck off the runway, but could not do so before the KLM plane hit the Pan Am
>plane. There was considerable confusion due to the use of non-standard phrases by
>the ATC, and there was considerable amount of fog.

Agreed! The Pan Am pilot couldn't get off in time and the KLM tried to take-off early once they realized what was going on, but velocity was insufficient. If I remember correctly, 583 people were toasted. Sad story!

by **Marco van Neerb** » Fri, 02 Jun 1995 04:00:00

>>Does anyone out there remember a crash back in 1977 when a Pan Am 747 and a
>>KLM 747 collided on the ground in Tenerife, Canary Islands? A friend of mine
>swears
>>that the Pan Am pilot was at fault. My memory says that the KLM pilot was at
>fault.

>My recollection is that the KLM 747 began his roll without take off clearance
>and then had to leap frog over the Pan Am 747. The Pan Am plane was taxiing
>on the active runway and due to fog couldn't be seen by the KLM pilot when he
>started the take off run.

>Bruce

If my memory serves me right the following happened. The KLM pilot
misunderstood communication with the tower and assumed they had clearance
for take-off. They could not see the Clipper because of the fog. They
collided wile the KLM 747 was already rotating.

The KLM pilot was at fault, but I'm not sure what the "official" reading
was.

cheers,
--------------------------------------------------------------
Marco van Neerbos | Snail: Stinzenlaan Noord 155

CompuServe: 100331,3715 | THE NETHERLANDS

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